Curse

Antithesis · May 01, 2008, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Problem.

...since you dont need dark fury, it would be possible to run Order of the Vampire instead of Order of Pain, and then you have a free slot where dark fury was. OoV may make up for some of the party healing lost from the D/N

also personally, i tend to stick with the n/rt cause i like to splinter rape pve.

Exactly what i had in mind too. OotV + DF = no-no. Without DF, OotV becomes viable.

doragon · May 01, 2008, 11:59 AM // 11:59

Too bad can't use this a ritualist :/

Shru where's the builds for other professions??

EDIT: so what have you been thinking for a rit? some tactics buffs? channeling splinter weapon, what else? :P

Sethellington · May 01, 2008, 07:59 PM // 19:59

a rit is easier to come up with than nec i think. try something like

[save yourselves!][weapon of aggression][spirit's strength][for great justice!]

maybe throw in [vocal was sogolon] to use before [for great justice!] and then drop it and build adrenaline.

Racthoh · May 01, 2008, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Order of the Vampire is definately an interesting option, although the problem I have is finding necromancer skills to run once I spec into blood. The two orders and Dark Fury are basically the only really useful skills in the line.

Problem. · May 01, 2008, 11:35 PM // 23:35

I tried the Life Barrier bar in Gates of Madness, and it failed miserably because of enchant removal. So i'm not quite sure what other options to use in terms of damage reduction.

shru · May 02, 2008, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Ranger:[build name="SY Ranger" prof=R/W marksmanship=12 expertise=12][distracting shot][save yourselves][triple shot][dual shot][rapid fire][ebon battle standard of honor][infuriating heat][resurrection signet][/build]

Assassin:[build name="SY Sin" prof=A/W criticalstrikes=12+1 daggermastery=12+1+1][Golden Phoenix Strike][death blossom][Moebius Strike][Save yourselves][critical agility][critical defense][critical eye][for great justice][/build]
with the attack speed of this guy, you're safe to drop [for great justice]and[golden phoenix strike] in favor of a better lead combo, something like [golden lotus strike]+[golden fang strike] or [golden fox strike]+[golden fang strike]

Dervish:[build name="SY Derv" prof=D/W Mysticism=12+1 ScytheMastery=12+1+1][protector's strike][eremite's attack][save yourselves][aura of holy might][heart of fury][for great justice][avatar of lyssa][eternal aura][/build]or mel derv[build name="SY Derv" prof=D/W Mysticism=12+1 ScytheMastery=12+1+1][wearying strike][save yourselves][aura of holy might][heart of fury][zealous renewal][for great justice][avatar of melandru][eternal aura][/build]

Warrior:[build name="SY War" prof=W/P Swordsmanship=12+1+1 Strength=12+1][Dragon Slash][brawling headbutt][steelfang slash][Save yourselves][flail][enraging charge][enduring harmony][for great justice][/build]

Necro:[SY Nec;OAFCQsxkKEU1NYngoHWxVBGH](thanks go to Moloch Vein for the build)

Ritualist:
And currently playing with the rit builds, I don't have a rit to test energy costs and such

so no actual builds yet.
for Spirit's strength I've been toying with sword and axe builds using some of these:
[brawling headbutt] [steelfang slash] [whirlwind attack] [cyclone axe][dismember] [spirit's strength] [sight beyond sight] [save yourselves] [for great justice] [weapon of aggression] [great dwarf armor]

and a channeling caster similair in play style to the N/W
[weapon of fury] [save yourselves] [spirit rift] [splinter weapon] [ancestor's rage] [for great justice] [flurry] [warmonger's weapon]

I know some of these builds aren't optimal (help with mel derv and rits please?) but these are all just suggestions and examples. Post anything you think should be changed on them, and I'll update them as I see new and more powerful ones emerging.

War My Guild · May 02, 2008, 01:49 AM // 01:49

[Spirit's Strength] [Vital Weapon] [Great Dwarf Armor] [Ebon Battle Standard of Honor] [Save Yourselves] [For Great Justice]

Umm... Yeah, that's pretty much my plan.

Also, I don't see [Sight Beyond Sight] as a good PvE choice. Seriously, I don't think Blind is used much in PvE, sure it can be added for those tough areas, but that's about it.

Here's an idea... Rt/W
[Dragon Slash] [Weapon of Aggression] [Great Dwarf Armor] [Ebon Battle Standard of Honor] [Save Yourselves] [For Great Justice]

Plus 2 Swordsmanship or Channelling skills.

Or even:

[Spirit's Strength] [Weapon of Aggression] [Cyclone Axe] [Great Dwarf Armor] [Ebon Battle Standard of Honor] [Save Yourselves] [For Great Justice]'

Realistically, no attribute points would even need to go into Axe Mastery, as it would be mainly used to gain adrenline.

shru · May 02, 2008, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by War My Guild

Also, I don't see [Sight Beyond Sight] as a good PvE choice. Seriously, I don't think Blind is used much in PvE, sure it can be added for those tough areas, but that's about it.

good point, I'm used to using it as a cover enchant, but with great dwarf armor, it loses that bonus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by War My Guild

Realistically, no attribute points would even need to go into Axe Mastery, as it would be mainly used to gain adrenline.

While that may be true, I'm focusing on builds that optimize offense/support while still being able to maintain SY at an acceptable rate. Anyone can throw together an 8 skill bar bent on perma SY, but how useful is it realy when you can do the same thing with a highly offensive character?
All these templates are focusing on maximizing damage without sacrificing the SY aspect, the real challenge is balancing the damage vs. % SY is up, which I think most do fairly well. Not specing into axe may provide you with a means to spam SY, but how is it going to help you in that offensive mindset?

War My Guild · May 02, 2008, 02:54 AM // 02:54

I see your way of thinking. I've never ever tried a War or Paragon, so I really have no idea how fast one gets adrenline. I assumed that the main point of these builds was to spam SY! and then try to do additional damage.

I've come up with a new idea(lol).

Assuming [Steady Stance] applies to knockdowns done by [Desperation Blow] and/or [Drunken Blow], then a build like this may really do well, with any profession primary:

[Steady Stance] [Drunken Blow] [Save Yourselves] [Shields Up] [To the Limit] [For Great Justice] [Great Dwarf Armor] [Ebon Battle Standard of Honor]

Any/W... Would it work? Obviously, [Ebon Battle Standard of Honor] and [Great Dwarf Armor] could be swapped out for any other PvE or more a more profession specific skill. [Shields up] can be replaced with [Watch Yourself].

Tactics: 12
And the rest is open...

More Damage output, but less party wide support:

[Steady Stance] [Drunken Blow] [Save Yourselves] [Desperation Blow] [To the Limit] [Dismember] [Great Dwarf Armor] [you move like a dwarf]

Edit: Found out Steady Stance does benefit from Drunken Blow and Desperation Blow.

Antithesis · May 02, 2008, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by War My Guild

[Steady Stance] [Drunken Blow] [Save Yourselves] [Shields Up] [To the Limit] [For Great Justice] [Great Dwarf Armor] [Ebon Battle Standard of Honor]

Too heavy on the energy, Steady+DB is ok but not great in PvE, the build is better as a W/D.

Stick with the basics of God-mode D-Slasher Shru posted. The only Strength skills are Flail and Enraging Charge, neither are needed for a X/W.
Obviously Enduring Harmony won't fit without a /P, but the adrenal engine is pretty covered by D-Slash, Brawling HB and Steelfang during the downtime of FGJ.

A DB/Moebius Sin shouldn't have too many problems building adrenaline without resorting to a pseudo-Warrior bar, nor should a Derv, Ranger or Paragon. Casters are more challenging and it's fun to devise a build, but really, why would you use Racway or go /W with a caster? The SY spammer is the linchpin of Racway's defense, SY is gonna make a squishy player even squishier. GDW will help, but you'll still be a hot target for agro.

Personally, i'd only go Racway with a physicals, stick to Sabway with casters.

TheDolph · May 02, 2008, 06:01 AM // 06:01

[build prof=N/Rt bloodmagic="12+1" deathmagic="10+1+1" soulreaping="8"][Dark Fury][Order of Pain][Animate Bone Fiend][Blood of the Master][Signet of Lost Souls][Aura of the Lich][Blood Ritual][Death Pact Signet][/build]

Okey, lets see if this gwBB thing works for me...

I was thinking that you could replace the D/N with a Necro that was mixed MM and orders. It could still pump out Dark Fury and Order of Pain, and further help with the offence with 8 ranged minions that would benefit from the Ebon Battle Standard. I know it is alot of sacrificing, hence I put aura of the lich in there to lessen the amount of healing needed. I don't know how the minions would stay inside the Battle Standard or even if one can put 12/10/8, but I though this might work in areas where 2 monk henchies would be enough. Thoughts?

Mr Pink57 · May 02, 2008, 06:48 AM // 06:48

I swapped [Empathic Removal] for [Signet of Removal] on the hex heavy setups and found a good outcome since OoP and DF are up pretty much all the time they use the same as [Empathic Removal] but for free.

pink

Antithesis · May 02, 2008, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDolph

[build prof=N/Rt bloodmagic="12+1" deathmagic="10+1+1" soulreaping="8"][Dark Fury][Order of Pain][Animate Bone Fiend][Blood of the Master][Signet of Lost Souls][Aura of the Lich][Blood Ritual][Death Pact Signet][/build]
....Thoughts?

4 sac skills? Looks like a corpsemaker.

doragon · May 02, 2008, 08:17 AM // 08:17

I did some small testing with ritualist. Weapon of fury is better for gaining adrealine than weapon of aggression against single targets.

Then i made some test against master of damage. i used the following build:
[skill]Weapon of fury[/skill],[skill]cyclone axe[/skill],[skill]dismember[/skill],[skill]whirlwind attack[/skill],[skill]save yourselves[/skill]. 12 axe mastery, 14 channeling.
I was attacking master and both adjacent practise targets. I was able to use save yourselves after each attack chain, 4 times in 20sec. Total damage in 20sec =~400 avarage 20dmg per second.

Then i did the same test with [skill]Spirit's strength[/skill],[skill]weapon of aggression[/skill],[skill]save yourselves[/skill],[skill]cyclone axe[/skill],[skill]dismember[/skill],[skill]whirlwind attack[/skill]. 10 axe mastery, 12 channeling, 11 spawning.
Again i was attacking both the practise targets and the master. I wasn't able to use save your selves as often as with weapon of fury, but i did more damage, ~800dmg in 20sec avarega dmg ~32. With "for great justice" i was able to use "save your selves" as often as in the first build.

I liked the build with "Weapon of fury" more cause with it you didn't need to stop casting "weapon of aggression" every 13sec. "Weapon of Fury" lasted 19sec. almost same recharge as ebon battle standard of honor(20sec)/ great dwarf armor (40sec), you could stop to cast both at the same time, if you took it to your build.

In "weapon of fury" build there is 2 open slots, maybe take some channeling skills ([skill]ancestor's rage[/skill] or [skill]splinter weapon[/skill]) or more axe skills ([skill]furious axe[/skill]" or anything that uses energy, cause energy ain't a problem.)

Then little about armor, 60armor + shield 8armor + Ghost forge insignas 15armor + great dwarf armor 24armor = 107armor. ain't that enough?

TheDolph · May 02, 2008, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

4 sac skills? Looks like a corpsemaker.

Well aura of the lich made zingeri's dual mm's work. And thats a constant 45% saccing from Blood of the master. Maybe if youput sup blood and maybe even death you could carry the necro's health down to 300 or so, and with aura of the lich it becomes around 150, saccing from that should easily be healed up with minor heals, and BR is kind of optional, didn't come up with anything else to put there, maybe another quick recharge self heal, maybe vampiric gaze or something?

doragon · May 02, 2008, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Pink57

I swapped [Empathic Removal] for [Signet of Removal] on the hex heavy setups and found a good outcome since OoP and DF are up pretty much all the time they use the same as [Empathic Removal] but for free.

pink

there's one differense in those skill empathic removal also removes hex and condition from you. That's quite good in hevy hex areas.

Edit: didn't want to do new post

Then little about the ritualist build. I used [skill]weapon of fury[/skill],[skill]save yourselves[/skill],[skill]cyclone axe[/skill],[skill]whirlwind attack[/skill],[skill]dismember[/skill],[skill]ancestor's rage[/skill],[skill]great dwarf armor[/skill],[skill]Flesh of my flesh[/skill]
I vanguished an area quite easily. It worked pretty well, most of the time i wasn't the target and i could keep save yourselves upp quite good.

Fuzzy Taco · May 02, 2008, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by shru

Necro:[SY Nec;OAFCQsxkKEU1NYngoHWxVBGH](thanks go to Fuzzy Taco for the build) and blood ritual is the optional spot.

sorry about that everyone, that build isn't mine - it was made by Moloch Vein, who was kind enough to share it with me. For this team build, i'd run something more along these lines as a nec primary:

[Necro SY! bot;OAFCY8xE/SZglAAgo3NIWRuI]

the last slot is yours to play with - you don't really need Necrosis, either. you can pack a fish hex like Shadow of Fear for areas with hex removal, and you can slot Rigor Mortis for areas with block.

Racthoh · May 02, 2008, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Pink57

I swapped [Empathic Removal] for [Signet of Removal] on the hex heavy setups and found a good outcome since OoP and DF are up pretty much all the time they use the same as [Empathic Removal] but for free.

Signet of Removal sadly doesn't trigger the Hexbreaker Aria, nor does it remove as much. In an area heavy with hexes you can always bank on Empathic Removal cleaning the caster as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDolph

health down to 300

Enemy AI generally targets whatever has the lowest health. I would not put my adrenaline and damage engine on something that is going to become the focus of enemy fire.

Richardt · May 02, 2008, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Order of the Vampire is definately an interesting option, although the problem I have is finding necromancer skills to run once I spec into blood. The two orders and Dark Fury are basically the only really useful skills in the line.

I've actually been having luck with a OotV/Mark of Fury restorer (this was based off a suggestion in another thread by Antithesis). Basically I swapped the Elite for Order of the Vampire, Rez for Mark Of Fury and Vengeful Weapon for Ghostmirrior Light (I think that's the name-it's the one that heals the target and caster at the same time). There's one more change I believe I made, but I'll have to post it later as I'm at work.

You don't get as much andrenaline from Mark of Fury as you do Dark Fury, but it works decently. I've used it in a variety of places (both NM and HM) and performs pretty good.

Racthoh · May 02, 2008, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

You don't get as much andrenaline from Mark of Fury as you do Dark Fury, but it works decently. I've used it in a variety of places (both NM and HM) and performs pretty good.

10 seconds is an eternity. I could see it being useful if I were to call an off target for my heroes to attack while I micro a Mark of Fury onto what I'm attacking, but then my other physicals aren't getting the adrenaline boost.